Conversing with a Destonian
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A little while ago Mr. SriLankaSelfForgives made and AntiHate vid directed at my video "Desteni Process Answers All Prayers." Soon after I made a video reply which responded to several of his points. I allowed his response which can be seen attached to my video. However, Mr SriLankaSelfForgives only allowed my response to exist as an attachment to his video for several hours before he decided to delete it. Of course the video still exists however you will not see any video responses as you can see here: www.youtube.com/watch

I asked Mr SriLankaSelfForgives why he allowed the response but then deleted it soon after. To this question I received no response. However a day or two later I received the following message from him:

Mr. XfinksX,

Thanks for exchanging some comments. pls allow me to be frank.

Lets look at yourself. Of all things in this world, you have decided to taken on desteni/desteni message, and poolman.

I mean, there must be some trigger which has triggered you to go after desteni. you have taken the time do some 30+ anti desteni vlogs, that is alot of time to give to hate something. perhaps you should have invested that time into reading the bible or some similar holy book, at least you would have sharpen your own faith.

Instead, you took on desteni. Naturally, like to know, when so much shit going in this world, why on earth are you after desteni?

Ok, that is precisely my point. The desteni message has triggered something in you, hence, you're going at it. perhaps you are seeking socalled 'negative attention' by been bad, you want to be seen and noticed specialy by desteni and perhaps by poolman.

Give yourself a chance of a life time. allow youself to give yourself a chance, to try those desteni tools out. Give a fair trail. At least then, you can speak from your own experience, not any borrowed stuff.

sad to see your videos, all i hear is someone faultfinding just for the sake for it, just for sake of wanting to be seen/heard.

end of the day, it matters not to me, what or who this XfinksX is, what his fate is, it matters not how much you scream hating desteni. I write this only because of our equal and oneness. It would be all to easy to ban you forever.

anyways, adios.


I have gotten messages from Destonians similar to SriLankaSelfForgives' on several occassions before this. They typically follow the same formula or some variation thereof. Usually, you will receive a message which is made to make you begin doubting yourself, instil guilt, or cause some form of confusion. This entire tactic is done in a house of cards like manner since the Destonian cant be specific or has to resort to generalizations. It seems from their frame point, they are unable to understand why you criticize something they so obviously love and are attached. They never address the obvious reality of how Desteni behaves in relation to their words. Then lastly, the prescribed formula invites you to try out the Desteni tools. I'm sure they would love nothing better than to convert a critic to Desteni. However, in the case of SriLankaSelfForgives, I had to let him down despite his appeal to some vague guilt tactic. My response to his message reads as follows:

Mr SriLankaSelfForgives,

The trigger you refer to and which seem to dominate Desteni style thinking is irrelevant. Even if my behavior has something to do with my past, it still wont alter Desteni's behavior which lies in contradiction to its words. Desteni says one thing and then does another. This isn't an opinion or a theory; it's an obvious fact. And I fail to see the relevance of my past religious practices having any bearing in this case - unless you wish to illustrate with more clarity. Also, you are clearly making assumptions in this regard.

Why am I after Desteni? Simple answer: I despise hypocrites.

Of course their are large numbers of hypocrites in the world. However, Desteni has come at a certain time and place in which I can do something about. It is better for me to speak out about something which is putting on a false front rather than say nothing at all. You can't understand why I attack Desteni and I cant understand why you tolerate their actions.

In actuality I wish Desteni's actions would align more with their words so that they could become a real force for change. Until this happens, I will continue my criticisms. Desteni needs to practice what they preach. Desteni needs to show real actions rather than words. Desteni needs to practice real equality and not just talk about it in some trite metaphorical sense. On the one hand Desteni asserts that it something better than system. However, its behavior looks like the same system it fights against and opposes. This is justified through calling everything else a cult and excusing the use of the tools of the system such as the iProcess money making scheme.

The only way Mr Poolman shows his attention is through false DMCAing. However, even he doesn't take even the smallest measure of responsibility for this since he has Darryl to do it for him. Even the money he collects from his scam is not directly traced back to him but rather to his daughter. You defend a man who wont even defend himself without resorting to acting like a child through silencing his critics.

Why should I try out Desteni tools when they seem of no benefit other than keeping members indoctrinated, delusional, and blinded? Ask yourself: Under what circumstances did I join Desteni? Was I under stress and searching for something at the time. Was I going through financial, mental or spiritual stress? Can you admit that you were vulnerable and allowed Desteni to prey upon you? Also can you criticize Poolman? Can you tell him that he doing things wrong? Can you tell him that his current plan will not help bring about world wide equality? Can you ask him why Desteni hasn't grown beyond a few hundred members in the last 4 years? Can you ask him to be accountable to the rest of Desteni and show every Desteni member an accurate accounting of all moneys going in an out of Desteni?

So you think I'm faultfinding just for the sake of it? Well I'm sorry to say I have found many with Desteni. It's not like I'm grasping at total air like you like to pretend. But since you wont take my word for it why don't take it from someone who has walked the Desteni process? See the following attached video: www.youtube.com/watch

Lastly, if you and Desteni want show your equality and oneness to me and the thousands of other critics on youtube, then stop preaching and start practicing.



Darryl's Spiteful Desteni Theology “Prefers a World of Meaninglessness”
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I was originally intending not to respond to this blog by Darryl. However, he seems to think I’m running away from debating him on the subject of Christianity. The real reason that I didn’t intend to respond is due to his inability to respond to someone without delivering personal attacks. I also figured that my response was already delivered through another response that I made to Anna Brix Thompson concerning the subject. However, Desteni and its subscribers seem to malign me as some form of sadist. This works for them so that they don’t have to seriously consider anything I have to say. Their argument follows the following baseless formula: “You can’t criticize us because you are projecting and everything you say is because of some personal issue you have.” - and so on and so on ad nauseam. Sadly, even if there some ground to this argument it doesn’t invalidate the many criticisms leveled against Desteni since their hypocrisy has nothing to do with my feelings or those of others on the subject. Darryl's main blog entry can be found here: darrylthomas.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/thom-darcs-sadistic-christian-theology-prefers-a-world-of-suffering/
 

By becoming that which he must defend, Thom Darc is fighting a battle of self-validation. And instead of answering questions with someone that can go after him, Darc believes picking on newbies is a great way test his mettle.

Darryl, I could say the same about you. The only reason you wrote this trite piece of rubbish was in search of self-validation. And as for picking on newbies, that is a non-sequtur. Anyone with enough attention span can see that Manuela’s video was more or less a replication of what you all agreed to say anyway. I didn’t see much difference in the statements made in the AntiHate vid responses. The only distinction was that I thought hers was a little more well worded. I didn’t refute your video because it was baseless and lacked any real substance. You just went on about Christian this and Christian that. However, I’m indulging you here now. Lastly, the Desteni video responses are a collective action almost certainly originating from a single source of leadership. Gee, I wonder who? 
 

Darc’s personal War Against Desteni only focuses on a few points. Darc rejects the Destonian position that thoughts, feelings and emotions are harmful to the human being, preferring to see them as a ‘valuable resource” for humanity. You know, that “valuable resource” directly responsible for war, poverty, inequality and everything else that makes this human condition so miserable an existence for most humans in this world. This reflects the typical limits of Thom Darc’s flawed system of “logic,”

This valuable resource has also been responsible for many good things as well. However, in your glass is half empty world you can’t see this. While negative emotion and thoughts have led to considerable evil, the opposite can be said of positive emotions and thoughts. The only thing really miserable here is how Desteni uses all this rhetoric to justify sending money to Poolman and wallowing in their own delusions while doing nothing. 
 

Thom Darc and other Christian fundamentalists, whose faith blinds them to the simple truth – that the creation and direction of Christianity was a project made by men, full of the thoughts, emotions and feelings such as deceit and lust for power.

Even if this is true, how is Desteni different? So far the only way you can validate Desteni is by pointing out how everything else sucks. Also, if it was a project made by men on the basis for lusts for power, why was it maligned and demonized by the power structure for several hundred years in its infancy. I’m sure you would like to see Desteni this way. However, the system doesn’t consider Desteni a threat because it is simply not a serious effort to change the world. 
 

the flowerhat metaphysics of “0rdo Aurora Templii,


Please show me where OTA has demonstrated any use or advocacy of metaphysics? Do you even understand what the word means?
 

Darrl’s rant can be summarized in the following points: 

This is the point which Thom Darc has to admit that he defends suffering because he has accepted, without question, his received teaching of what “God” is, and ultimately, “God’s Plan for Humanity” includes suffering, rape, torture, war, every single thing in Creation.

I repeat: what Thom Darc has stated so boldly as a “Christian” is that he “prefers a world of suffering,” which unwittingly encapsulates fully the essence of religious thought throughout the centuries. Holy Wars, Crusades and jihad are still being waged across the Earth over ostensively religious rationales.

Thom Darc’s logic is simple: if suffering exists, it is because of “God’s” will, and that human beings are saddled with emotions and thoughts that contributed to that suffering, well, that’s off-limits to discuss, as well, for according to Thom Darc’s logic, anything that looks like criticism of “God” must always be refuted.

Thom Darc and the sadistic Christianity that he represents, which is, in effect, ALL of Christianity, claims that a world wracked by evil is preferable to one where evil does not exist.

Darryl, I never said I prefer suffering just for the sake of suffering. Therefore, I’m going to us the words of C.S. Lewis in his The Problem of Pain to respond to you: 
 

By the goodness of God we mean nowadays almost exclusively His lovingness; and in this we may be right. And by Love, in this context, most of us mean kindness - the desire to see others than the self happy; not happy in this way or in that, but just happy. What would really satisfy us would be a God who said of anything we happened to like doing, "What does it matter so long as they are contented?" We want, in fact, not so much a Father in Heaven as a grandfather in heaven - a senile benevolence who, as they say, "liked to see young people enjoying themselves" and whose plan for the universe was simply that it might be truly said at the end of each day, "a good time was had by all". [pg. 20] 

I should very much like to live in a universe which was governed on such lines. But since it is abundantly clear that I don't, and since I have reason to believe, nevertheless; that God is Love, I conclude that my conception of love needs correction. [pg. 21] 

If God is Love, He is, by definition, something more than mere kindness. And it appears, from all the records, that though He has often rebuked us and condemned us, He has never regarded us with contempt. He has paid us the intolerable compliment of loving us, in the deepest, most tragic, most memorable sense. [pg. 21] 

We are, not metaphorically but in very truth, a Divine work of art, something that God is making, and therefore something with which He will not be satisfied until it has a certain character. Here again we come up against what I have called the "intolerable compliment". Over a sketch made idly to amuse a child, an artist may not take much trouble: he may be content to let it go even though it is not exactly as he meant it to be. But over the great picture of his life - the work which he loves, though in a different fashion, as intensely as a man loves a woman or a mother a child - he will take endless trouble - and would, doubtless, thereby give endless trouble to the picture if it were sentient. [pg. 22] 

When Christianity says that God loves man, it means that God loves man: not that He has some "disinterested", because really indifferent, concern for our welfare, but that, in awful and surprising truth, we are the objects of His love. You asked for a loving God: you have one. The great spirit you so lightly invoked, the "lord of terrible aspect", is present: not a senile benevolence that drowsily wishes you to be happy in your own way, not the cold philanthropy of a conscientious magistrate, nor the care of a host who feels responsible for the comfort of his guests, but the consuming fire Himself, the Love that made the worlds, persistent as the artist's love for his work and despotic as a man's love for a dog, provident and venerable as a father's love for a child, jealous, inexorable, exacting as love between the sexes. [pg. 24-25] 

The problem of reconciling human suffering with the existence of a God who loves, is only insoluble so long as we attach a trivial meaning to the word "love", and look on things as if man were the centre of them. Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake. "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." We were made not primarily that we may love God (though we were made for that too) but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the Divine love may rest "well pleased". To ask that God's love should be content with us as we are is to ask that God should cease to be God [pg. 25] 

All arguments in justification of suffering provoke bitter resentment against the author. You would like to know how I behave when I am experiencing pain, not writing books about it. You need not guess, for I will tell you; I am a great coward. But what is that to the purpose? When I think of pain - of anxiety that gnaws like fire and loneliness that spreads out like a desert, and the heartbreaking routine of monotonous misery, or again of dull aches that blacken our whole landscape or sudden nauseating pains that knock a man's heart out at one blow, of pains that seem already intolerable and then are suddenly increased, of infuriating scorpion-stinging pains that startle into maniacal movement a man who seemed half dead with his previous tortures - it "quite o'ercrows my spirit". If I knew any way of escape I would crawl through sewers to find it. But what is the good of telling you about my feelings? You know them already: they are the same as yours. I am not arguing that pain is not painful. Pain hurts. That is what the word means. I am only trying to show that the old Christian doctrine of being made "perfect through suffering" is not incredible. To prove it palatable is beyond my design. [pg. 59]

Therefore Darryl, I see suffering as a necessary ingredient for spiritual development and growth. Like C.S. Lewis I have no wish to see a world where abuse continues without any reason and for nothing more than the delight of suffering. However, what is Desteni’s prescription Darryl? You wish to remove the systems which perpetuate abuse. However, you and the rest of Desteni constantly practice abuse against yourselves and people outside of Desteni. Your solution is the Equal Money System with the Desteni Process. It is a proposition which is hallow and offers nothing except wishful fantasy based upon jealousy. If Desteni were to implement its vision on a grande scale and if it were to work as desired, what would be the outcome except a world where everything has no meaning? Like I said before, a world where I simply shovel food in mouth but can’t live is something I’m simply not interested in. 
 

And lastly: 
 

Darc’s putative master, “Jesus” directed, is avoided out of crass selfishness, for one wonders if Thom Darc would hold such views if he led a life of the worst of the sufferers in this world. One wonders if Thom Darc only speaks such shit because of his relative privileged position?

What exactly is it I’m avoiding here Darryl? Joining Desteni ? Vlogging all day? Self Writing? Spaming and selling a dubious money making scam? Going on and on about the horrible world while actually doing nothing about it? Please let me know since you seem to be my judge.


The Desteni Message
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People who support Desteni (Members, Recruiters, Fence Sitters, etc.) seem to be unable to link actions with words. In one instance, some who advocate the Desteni material get very defensive when told that they are in Desteni or in someway a piece of it. They seem to be under the illusion that their words sets them apart from their actions. In reality, their actions make their words meaningless. If this person is participating in the Desteni Process, by their very actions they have become a part of Desteni. Also this is further enhanced through maintaining a channel which provides links and referrals to the Desteni website.

Furthermore, Darryl states:

Quote:
From your typical Christian bible-thumper to your run-of-the-mill lightweenie to the meta-conspiracy theorist, you will notice a very interesting pattern: when analyzing something they don't agree with, ALWAYS focus on the messenger, whether it's Jesus, Abraham or Alex Jones, or (gasp!) Bernard Poolman. Don't objectively analyze the message.

In this case the message is irrelevant if not backed up in action. Poolman and the rest of Desteni simply don't practice what they preach. And whenever this point is highlighted to their attention, they use deflection to hide their faults. Therefore, when one says to them "Look at how you are being unequal or look at how guys are acting like a cult," the defense usually follows the following pattern: "The world does the same thing!, The money system is a cult, or we are only doing what is best for all!" As a result they are stating that they are simply copying the actions of the very things they preach against.

Quote:
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you ~ Friedrich Nietzsche in Beyond Good and Evil

The only meaningful thing found in Desteni's message is that "You haven't read enough of the material or you haven't watched enough of the videos." Therefore, when someone doesn't understand something that person simply hasn't received enough of the repetitive cult indoctrination material. Desteni's message simply doesn't align with their actions. They seem to be under the illusion that self-work is enough to change the world around them regardless of what exists in reality. They tell themselves they are becoming more self effective and self directive. However their is no good evidence that Desteni has made these people much better from their previous lives. Some may have used the Desteni tools to escape from addictions or mental problems, but have only entangled themselves in something as bad or worse. Also, such problems could have been addressed through other groups and treatments. They subvert their anxieties of being unable to live in their dream world through holding onto the hope of the coming EMS (Desteni's Savior). Separation from reality is one of the main driving forces in Desteni. In fact through Desteni's thought stopping tools it has simply allowed them to crush doubt and worry to further withdraw into delusion. They use Self-Honesty as self deception in order to excuse their behavior. Thus best for all has allowed them to excuse such things online bullying, spamming, pyramid schemes, harassment, and perjury. Their forms of abuse are given excuse and dressed in a manner which continues such abuse. All these things stand as direct evidence to how they are not doing anything but reinforcing their own hypocrisy. And if given enough power, Desteni would only continue to slide into worse abuse while excusing the behavior as best for all. Therefore in direct response to Darryl's statement, when people who oppose Desteni, focus on Bernard Poolman they are in fact focusing on how their message actually manifests in action in the real world.

Desteni Desteni Desteni
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I haven't posted here in while since beginning my youtube crusade against Desteni. The Cult Education Forum has been a great source of non-Desteni controlled printed word. However, a friend of mine is now posting thoughts on the Desteni Cult. Every group no matter what side of the mountain it falls on is due to suffer inter-political entanglements. Desteni is no different of course as it's a human organization run by humans (although Mr. Poolman might very well be something else). For example Spamann who is an endless source of amusement seems to treat Desteni as Disney World and she is their glorious princess. With this unofficial recognition comes increasing helpings of egotism. Not too long ago she caused some internal strife due to her alignment with veganism. The Pontif Maximus of Desteni could not have this demagogue causing him problems, so he put his foot down and put the princess in her place. Anyway, my friend wishes to draw attention to such things and related issues. This new journal is called Destenigossip.

http://destenigossip.livejournal.com/

Cheers.

Desteni Productions: History of Mankind
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Desteni’s History of Mankind series presents itself as true testimony from some spirit named Jack. Even if one accepts that Jack is indeed a real spirit or demon or whatever, the story which Jack relays in these videos is absurd to the extreme. While reading the text feed of the videos which a Desteni follower has (thankfully) decided to religiously transcribe, I was reminded of the character Brian (played by Jim Breuer) from the movie Half Baked. It was almost as if Brian wrote the entire thing while puffing on a joint and going “Whoa!” and “Yeah!” in between. The reason I say this is because Jack will describe things in very ambiguous and non specific terms while constantly using the word “Specific.” Also, Jack, like Bernard Poolman, loves to insert the terms “Interesting” and “Fascinating” repeatedly through the story. However, unlike Brian, Jack’s story about history, within the context of Desteni, is not really funny or amusing since people are taking it seriously. 

The story begins with a universe filled with fuzzy galaxies and fuzzy planets. I use the term “fuzzy” here to describe how Jack tries to relay information about things which don’t exist in our own dimension. In this way, a planet is a planet but not precisely a planet the way we know it. Gold is gold but not precisely the gold we know. Jack seems to have trouble describing something which he should be intimately familiar with. While I’ll admit that an extradimensional experience might be hard to describe, an entity as old as Jack should have little trouble giving more defining and vastly more details. Jack also likes to chime in with statements “You are probably wondering….” In many cases, a reasonable viewer or reader would not have been wondering about the questions that Jack spotlights. For example, Jack says “Now, you’re probably wondering, “Where is the city of gold?”/“Where was the city of gold?” The city of gold was within this solar system, within this universe/existence.” Before this Jack never even mentioned a city of gold but merely stated that Anu and his race needed gold to survive. Regardless, Jack’s tedious story slugs along with few characters and an elaborate towering scheme of immensely needless proportions. 

What I’m going to try and show here is the vast problems which Jack’s story has through comparison with known reality and an appeal to reason. Some information which is widely accepted by modern scientists will probably not be acceptable to a follower of Desteni as it would be perceived as a deception. Therefore, my argument will be based on what can be directly observed and reasoned in the present time without resorting to scientific methods of dating. This works well since Jack’s conception of time is also very fuzzy. Many of Desteni's History of Mankind series can be found in text here: desteni.co.za/forum/viewforum.php

1. The Gold Problem

Not only does Desteni have a money problem, but the new age group has a gold problem as well. In History of Mankind, Desteni relates how gold was not a naturally occurring substance on Earth. However, for some reason Anu needed or thought he needed it for his race to continue. Before coming to Earth, Anu and his race gathered gold from other planets or stars. 

Usually, to obtain gold, they had a specific planet. Basically, I don’t know how to describe it exactly; but it was black, and there was coal. Let’s take a sun that burns out, and it remains this big round coal basically, and it’s fusing with all sorts of gasses and burning liquids, et cetera (like a volcano, like a massive round volcano, or something like that). Now, it’s lava (but not lava exactly) that was in the center of this planet. HoM2 The Reptilians

What Jack seems to be describing here is a black dwarf. Black dwarves are hypothetical remnants of stars that pass through all stages of stellar life. None are known to exist due to the age of the universe and the time required for a white dwarf to cool into a black dwarf. Jack doesn’t seem to understand what coal is since coal starts off as plant matter. But, for the sake of argument, I’ll just pretend that Jack is using coal here as a descriptive term. Jack also makes the mistake of saying that the star is still fusing gases. If this were the case, the star would still be generating thermonuclear reactions along with tremendous heat and light. But, the History of Mankind sloppily continues:

Of course, they had methods and methodologies of how to obtain gold and actually manifest gold from that planet. But, eventually--it’s almost just like a star--it exploded and, firstly, killed all the Annunaki races who worked there to obtain the gold necessary for their planet. That was the only method they had. Previously--a long, long, long time ago--the forefathers of the Annunaki race used meteorites. There was gold from there as well; but then, later, that also ran out. HoM2 The Reptilians

So now Jack is describing some vague place that was like a planet or a star where gold was produced. And then for some reason it exploded like Praxis in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. Before this, the Annunaki had gathered gold from meteorites. So Desteni would have everyone believe that Anu depleted all of the gold from everywhere else in the universe? This is absurd. Spectral analysis of HgMn stars (stars that have strong abundance in mercury and manganese) indicates the presence of gold (presently and stretching back into the past) in other parts of the universe. Did Anu just overlook these? And since the Annunaki are not physical beings, they should have had few problems getting the gold since having a city at the earth’s core gave them little trouble. 

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1998BAAS...30..760P

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php

But, Jack’s strange tale continues on. Anu along with the Atlanteans made a way for this gold substance to manifest in their realm, specifically in the Earth’s core. Harvesting this gold dimensionally was inefficient from Anu’s perspective. To make a long story short, Anu along with other races created humanity in order to harvest or mine the gold. In some ways this has the same story which Zecharia Sitchin gives for humanity. However, according to Sitchin, the Anunnaki merely modified an existing humanity which was already in place existing as Neanderthals or an earlier version of hominid. The Desteni story which Jack gives has a few more problems here. First, Desteni claims that there is an abundance of gold at the Earth’s core. However, volcanoes and the Earth’s electromagnetic shield reveal that the core is mostly made of iron. If gold is so abundant at the core, shouldn’t people be able scavenge sizable amounts of it every time a volcano goes off? The next problem arises from claiming that humans were designed to mine gold from the earth.

Why were these systems programmed? Firstly, they were programmed to do a specific task, which was first the initial necessity for man on Earth, to dig out gold. So, how were they programmed? They were programmed to, basically, move their arms. The brain system was programmed for the rest of the physical body (the organs, et cetera) to move automatically. The breathing, of course, was automatic. Everything was automated systematically. Please remember, it was automated systematically. In terms of their tasks (which was to dig out gold), that was programmed into each one. HoM18 Programming Humans

This is clearly ridiculous. If mankind was designed to dig out gold from the earth, we would be more resistant to toxic gases, able to cope with living underground indefinitely, able to see naturally in the dark, have a toughened skin and skeletal structure, be physically stronger, and be more resistant to extreme temperatures. In this way, Morlocks from H.G. Wells’ Time Machine would be a more appropriate creature than mere modern human beings. While Desteni claims that the human design was to aid in recovering gold through our ability to reason and develop tools, it is a very weak argument at best. It is equivalent to using a spoon to hammer nails. Why is that humans are best thing that Anu and his team could come with for purposes of mining gold? Were Anu and his fellow reptilians really that stupid? Personally, I could think of several variations of humanity (and non humans) which would accomplish the task with far greater efficiency.

2. The Reincarnation Memory Problem

Another problem which Desteni’s back-story has is their claim concerning reincarnation. Supposedly, Anu and his team of ancient conspirators created a dimensional level where all human/Atlanteans would go after dying in the physical world. Once entering this realm, the person would lose all memories.

So, Anu said, “Right. Once we capture these beings, we’re going to place them all in this dimension. Because, in this dimension, they’re first going to have to be implanted with that mind placement so that it can connect to the crystals, so that who they are is suppressed and they don’t remember a thing, so that--when they come into this human physical form--that center point within their interdimensional mind gets placed into the interdimensional placement of the systems in the human form; and then they can manifest simply. Then, when they die, they don’t remember a thing--they don’t remember who they are, they don’t remember what they experienced--and we can just recycle them, all the time.” HoM 23 Anu Creates Dimensions

So here it is people. In order for Anu to get his little slave race going, he needs the bodies powered by Atlanteans in spirit form. Why these human machines couldn’t be powered by some other form of energy is beyond me. Also, since they could already develop complex machines like the human body, a rudimentary artificial intelligence wouldn’t have been far beyond their capabilities. Therefore, the enslavement of the Atlanteans really wasn’t necessary. But, regardless, Anu and the mad scientists continue to defy actual common sense and simplistic efficiency. Their efforts are equivalent to using a hydrogen bomb to kill a mosquito. And as a result, the absurdly insane Anu creates another dimension where the Atlanteans will forget who they really are.

Later, there was yet another problem concerning memory and people would just go crazy and start killing each other. Jack explains memories would just sort of run together, get distorted, or whatever. To solve the problem, Anu and buddies came up with something called the soul construct. The soul construct retained all memories in the current life in an orderly cyclical database. Also, memories from previous lives were recorded and kept locked up in the solar plexus. Jack asserts that the overall purpose of the soul was to enforce separation. However, then Jack explains:

Oh, by the way, the soul construct’s entire manifestation has been removed from existence [smiles]. We decided to remove it because it has got no purpose whatsoever, and you are not your soul, at all. It was just really memories of past life experiences as different mind consciousness system placements, which you used to define who you are; and you are not that. So, we removed the soul construct from existence (in one moment [smiles]). So, you don’t have to be concerned about the soul anymore. HoM32 The Soul

The video where Jack explains this is dated August 27th 2007. The contradiction here is that if the soul construct was destroyed or eliminated, then how did people like Adolf Hitler, Alice Bailey, and Mother Theresa (whose interviews were recorded later) remember anything at all? For example when Hitler died in 1945, he would have had all his memories purged. But in the first Desteni Hitler interview he clearly shows he has retained memories through talking about experiences as a child. So if Hitler’s memories were contained in the soul construct, and the soul construct program was deleted, how does this spirit even know that he is Hitler? And for that matter, how do any of them know who or what they are? Should we believe that the ones who spoke through the Portal were exceptions to the rule? High Priest Darryl Thomas explains:

Demons have been greatly misunderstood in human history, and many beliefs about them have made erroneously attached to them. Demons in every case turned out to be human beings who died in extremely traumatic conditions, and were trapped within the emotional energetics symbolized by their deaths. A great number of these demons were children. And all demons were trapped on what was called 'the demon dimension' which was superimposed on earth.

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,62042,63675#msg-63675

So all these children who remembered their traumatic deaths were exceptions to the memory wipe too? Also, if this so called soul construct thing has been done away with, shouldn’t there be a lot more people going insane and losing their heads since no one should be able to retain memories in the proper sequence anymore? This seems like a serious blunder on Desteni’s part. Therefore, I would challenge Jack to wheel his old desiccated spirit corpse back into the Portal and explain this to everyone.

But, this is unlikely to happen since according to High Priestess Andrea concerning the dimensions since January 2008:

The dimensions and dimensional beings no more exist – there is no more ‘individuality’ as ‘dimensional beings’ that exists as all of dimensions and dimensional beings is now one and equal as life. Thus – all that exist currently is this existence, this world within which we experience ourselves which is within the process of amalgamating as and with life as all as one as equal – thus, the dimensions’ process is done.

desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php

Trying to make sense of Jack’s vague mushy story is like trying to straighten an old twisty tie. So, before Anu, everyone enjoyed dimensional existence. Then Anu created another dimension or dimensions where everyone would lose memories upon death. But, then Anu created a soul construct memory deposit box in order to keep order. But, now thanks to Desteni all the dimensions and dimensional beings are gone? Therefore, if the dimensions are so crystal clear now, shouldn’t there be some noticeable changes for everyone to see? What about children born after January 2008, how are they different? How is nature and the animals standing up as one having any affect as opposed to the way things were before? Or will Desteni just keep denying everything and continue practicing its own convoluted version of solipsism?

And still there are more problems. Desteni claims to have cleared the dimensions for all. However, why would Anu who had been planning and setting this whole elaborate scheme up for millions of years simply abdicate to a shabby channeler and a few new age shamans? So Jack wants all to believe that all this was done without a fight or any kind of struggle? Furthermore, how can anyone be sure that anything coming through the Portal is but another ruse and deception of Anu’s making?

3. The Separation of the Gods Problem

Jack drones on and on about how all the human designs and systems have been meant to keep everyone thinking they are separate. However, Anu, Enki, Enlil, and Marduk don’t suffer from such designs and systems and yet appear to retain some notion of individuality. While, one could argue that Enki and Enlil don’t seem to possess much individuality, Marduk on the other hand demonstrates non-oneness with Anu through his initial compassion for humanity. Also, Jack further explains:

That’s what Satya basically also did; she had kind of a “learning establishment” and a library for the children. She trained specific children for specific races to a specific cause. For instance, the planet itself had Kings and Queens and Lords and fucking Gods and Goddesses (you know, depending on what the race’s expression was) HoM3 The Library of Alcyone

Kings, queens, lords, and gods imply that all these different races had degrees of inequality and separation amongst their own people. And all this separation was kept intact without any benefit of Anu or some other megalomaniac race. So Jack wants people to think we need to get back to a state of Equality and Oneness when inequality and separation seemed to pervade the universe from the very beginning. And if the separation and inequality were present before Anu’s machinations, why did these rocket scientists go through all the trouble of making all beings feel even more separate and unequal? It all seems rather superfluous.

4. Desteni Story versus Sumerian Mythology

Desteni’s History of Mankind introduces several characters. These are: Anu, Enki, Enlil, Marduk, and Satya. The first three are drawn from Sumerian sources, while Marduk is considered primarily Babylonian in origin, and Satya is a concept taken from Hinduism and Buddhism. The only quality that Desteni’s Anu shares with the one recorded by the Sumerians is that both are supreme leaders of their kind. I suppose Desteni could claim that the reason for this is due to Anu not wanting his creation to know anything about him. But, if this is the case, why would we even know his name? Another rebuttal which Desteni could use is that the Sumerians (according to Jack in HoM38) were dimensional beings and thus were able to discover a few details regarding the designers. However, this holds scant water since Marduk was primarily a Babylonian deity. Sumerian sources concerning Marduk (under the name Amar Utu) are obscure; at best he was only considered a minor deity. Jack gives few details concerning Enki and Enlil. In fact their only function seems to be faceless designers and followers of Anu. Therefore, why did Jack even bother mentioning them? The Babylonian Marduk is depicted as a warrior god who absorbs the power of Enki and Enlil and who fights for the Annunaki against Tiamat. After defeating Tiamat, Marduk recovers the Tablets of Destiny. According to the Enuma Elish, The Tablets of Destiny allowed any god who possessed them to rule over the universe. In this way, while Marduk remained on very good terms with Anu, Enki, and Enlil, he eclipsed them all. Desteni’s version of Marduk is more like a mad scientist version of Prometheus. He seems to have a fondness for his human creations. However, after Anu and the Serpents reprogram the humans in the Garden of Eden to be complete slaves, Marduk, in a completely crazy and nonsensical fashion, takes out his anger on his human pets instead of Anu. As a result, Marduk caused women to experience pain at childbirth. Satya is the Hindu concept of ultimate truth. In Desteni, she acts a mediating librarian who arranges for Anu to meet the Atlanteans. In some ways, she bears a closer resemblance to Sophia in Gnosticism. In conclusion, Desteni’s use of Sumerian deities is nearly paper thin. Jack could have easily substituted their names with Bob, Larry, Darryl, and Darryl. Also, Jack’s depiction of human history has some striking similarities with the Stargate TV series. In this way, the Ancients become the Atlanteans, the Goa’uld become Sumerian gods, the Unas become Anu’s original reptilian design, and naqahdah becomes gold.

Now we come to the crux of the issue. Desteni claims that Jack can’t lie due to being in a state of Equality and Oneness. However, High Priestess Andrea, in her videos concerning her pre-Desteni days, clearly explained to everyone how Jack was a liar and a deceiver. From what I’ve been able to show above, Jack still seems to be on lying rollercoaster and is taking everyone in Desteni for a ride. Therefore, since Jack is still lying, how can one even trust what is spoken by any other spirits speaking through the Portal? Even if you don’t think that Bernard Poolman wrote the entire pile of Desteni hogwash, it should be obviously clear to all that the Desteni spirits are not truthful, but are actually the vile deceiving demons we know from legend.

1 Timothy 4:1 – 3: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.


Desteni Productions: Towards a Clockwork Desteni
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Desteni and Free Will

It was concerning this subject that I first became interested in studying Desteni. I tried to understand why Desteni stated there was no free will. I mean I had encountered the normal subject material before concerning determinism and so forth. But, Desteni seemed to be saying something a little different. However, for the most part, I only received a load of jargon. Everytime I made a point, the youtube Desteni vanguard would either say something which I didn’t understand or just sidestepped the issue towards another subject such as equal money. Their problem with God boiled to not being equal with God. Team Desteni simply refused to see a benevolent God who acted as a loving spiritual parent tending to his children. To me, their arguments sounded like whining. In fact, they are like children who cried for water. And when given water, cried for milk. And when given milk, cried for honey. At its source, Desteni’s objection to God stems from jealousy. This jealousy feeds into their philosophy as they aim to become or surpass God. Nevertheless, Desteni states that free will is non-existent due to preprogramming by some ancient alien. 

From Munchin:

The moment you are fully grown, with all functions in the mother's womb before birth, you connect to the unconscious mind of all of humanity as one together – this ensuring that you are able to automatically apply yourself in growing up as a ‘normal' child in this world. For instance, just knowing you have to drink the mother's milk, how to drink the mother's milk, and how to start crawling and walking etc. All the information pertaining to the collective humanity is downloaded into you. Your subconscious mind connect to that of the mother's subcon­scious mind – meaning the mother's perso­nality and programmed behaviours , interpretations and participations of and in this world and her life, including all the other human beings in her world gets downloaded into you.The subconscious mind download is where you download all the information of the generations in your family that have gone before you – the sins of the fathers so to speak.

www.desteni.co.za/a/munchin-thoughts-the-unknown-secret-of-creation

The above statement is easily refutable. Human minds at birth are simply not built this way. Feral children in general refute Desteni’s download claim as most things, concerning humanity, are nurture rather than nature. For instance walking is not so natural. Genie, who was isolated to her room for the first thirteen years of her life, could barely walk when she was found and released. A mother’s behaviors and personality have little affect if any in deciding how a child will turn out. While genes (or download if you want to call it that) do play a part in a child’s development, it has been shown that genes are not static and may express themselves in various ways throughout someone’s life. Oxana Malaya, another feral child, was abandoned by parents who were alcoholics. She spent her formative years in the company of dogs. Later, after she was found, she didn’t become an alcoholic. In fact, Oxana is more at home with dogs than humans.

More on Genie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_%28feral_child%29

More on Oxana: http://dogsinthenews.com/stories/060925b.php

Nurtured by Love or Matured by Nature?

“A child must LEARN to walk erect, to talk, to eat with a knife and fork, to catch a ball, to ride a bicycle, to swim, et cetera. The mastery of these skills does not fall from the sky. A child must also learn to sustain his attention, to listen when spoken to, to follow through on instructions, to control his behaviour and to sit still and remain in his seat when the situation so requires. These abilities, which play a determining role in school success, also do not happen automatically. The same applies to qualities such as friendliness, thankfulness, honesty, truthfulness, unselfishness and respect for authority. All these skills and qualities — and many more — must be learnt for the child to eventually lead a happy and successful adult life.” 

http://www.feralchildren.com/en/pager.php?df=plessis 

Munchin (or rather Mr. Poolman) continues:

Your conscious mind is where and how you interpret and participate in the world consciously, meaning where you start placing pictures and words together in your world, observing and looking at the other human beings as examples around you and start designing your own ‘individual' and ‘unique' personality as who and what you will become.See, the platform for the design and creation of who and what you will become have already been placed in the unconscious and subconscious mind, the building on this foundation is done by yourself consciously in the conscious mind as you interpret and participate in this world as you grow up along with your examples from which you copy most of who and what you will become. Thoughts and thinking comes naturally as an occurrence within you due to the unconscious mind integration and downloaded information as you connect to the universal mind of the unconscious which exist in all human beings as one – therefore all human beings have accepted and allowed the way of life according to the act of thinking, it happens automatically the moment you have completed your entire design and creation of who and what you will become which usually occur at the ages of about five to six years.

While I’ll admit that many people fall into roles which they think they have chosen, this does not mean that everyone is going to fall into some form of programmed behavior. Societies will always have people who lie outside of the norm and go against the grain. While many find their niche at an early age and stick with it, others do not. To say that everyone falls into programmed roles is a gross generalization. If one were to examine the spectrum of society as a whole, most will notice people who do not exactly fit in. These misfits sometimes climb to greatness, while many others remain in obscurity. For example, there are some people (to name a few) in history who refute Desteni’s Platform design: Abraham Lincoln, Adolf Hitler, Malcolm X, Francis of Assisi, and Joan of Arc. Also, as the feral children have shown, thoughts and thinking do not come naturally. Humanity, for the most part, is a blank slate or Tabula Rasa at birth whereas animals know almost everything they will need to know from birth. 

However, Desteni would have everyone believe that our thoughts and emotions sabotage our actual free will. I would argue that our ability to reason and think gives us free will. Just because some people won’t control the endless vagaries and distortions of the mind, doesn’t mean that everyone can’t. People who allow themselves to be ruled by their more carnal side are often blind to how their emotions and feelings lead them around by the nose. If the only way to actualize free will is to strip away most thoughts and all feelings, then what is actually left? While I’ll agree that there is something left, it is little more than the cognition of an animal. In this way Desteni exists as a method to remove or strip away the Image of God. 

Sadly, Desteni demonstrates that it lacks an understanding of the Image of God. 

http://desteni.co.za/a/interviews-from-the-farm-3-in-the-image-and-likeness-of-god 

Bernard Poolman: But understand that according to the… I have to cough there because you can’t speak these words without a freaky sense of eeriness, I mean, when you read the fuckin’ holy books, they are making certain suggestions and they are making statements in those books – and here I am saying ‘they’ because there has been many authors – they are making certain statements in those books that imply that man is the image and likeness of God. I mean – what does that really mean… the image and likeliness of God? What is an image and likeness? An image is the form, is the imagery. What is the likeness? The sameness, isn’t it?
Darryl: Image is a visual representation of… of God.
Bernard Poolman: I mean, so God looks like man, and then ‘likeness’ is that man can do the same shit as God. Okay, so what does that imply?
Darryl: the same thing
Bernard Poolman: That man equals God as an image and likeness, isn’t it? So, if you are less than man it means you are less than God isn’t it. Then you are de-manned isn’t it, which is a demon.

Bernard and Darryl here seem to think that the Image of God means a visual likeness or similarity of form. In short, God and man are equal since they look the same. While it is understandable that there is confusion concerning this term, this is simply not what the Image of God means.

http://www.counterbalance.net/theogloss/imago-body.html

Image of God: A theological term, applied uniquely to humans, which denotes the symbolical relation between God and humanity. The term has its roots in Genesis 1:27, wherein "God created man in his own image. . ." This scriptural passage does not mean that God is in human form, but rather, that humans are in the image of God in their moral, spiritual, and intellectual nature. Thus, humans mirror God's divinity in their ability to actualize the unique qualities with which they have been endowed, and which make them different than all other creatures: rational structure, complete centeredness, creative freedom, a possibility for self-actualization, and the ability for self-transcendence.

Desteni proclaims that you are not your mind. On this point, I somewhat agree. However, in my view the brain (or physical mind) is simply the computer through which the soul interfaces with the world. The soul controls the mind, not vice versa. However, people can allow their thoughts and feelings to override what they know is right or wrong. And sadly, this happens far too often. Many people will use the excuse of addiction in order to excuse their habits. However, in the end, stopping an addiction merely requires effort and patience. Additionally, I would say that with God’s help such efforts become far easier and possibly necessary in some cases. But, people who see their lives as miserable hells from which they can’t escape fail to make an effort simply because there seems to be no need to bother. Thus, an addict will argue “My life sucks. And even if I quit, my life would still suck. So why try?” Addiction often goes hand in hand with depression and sadness. They use vices to escape from a life which they perceive to be awful. 

Some people get this way because they stroll around trying to fill themselves with riches, or power, or status. Their thoughts are always turned inward. They want to feel loved, but have no sincere desire to show or give love. They want to feel special, but despise those who appear special. They want happiness, but give no thought to the happiness of others. After a while, they see the world around them as a hell, where only undeserving people get rewarded. Others only see themselves as victims of circumstance and powerlessness. They see sin and wickedness all around them and accept it as normal. They deceive themselves into thinking that since everyone else is doing it and having fun, why shouldn’t I do so as well? And if a chance arises to help someone in need, they make excuses as to why they can’t. Thus, many people get to where they feel that they are victims of a predetermined system. Although the weight of sin may seem overpowering and impossible to overcome, people can ultimately decide to quit. Others have a desire to fill their lives with excitement. Their minds are always chasing after the next exhilarating experience. They want to explore or discover new things. However, the real world all too often constrains them with things like work, money, or rules. Thus, they develop a perception that they have no real freedom of choice. In this way, freedom of choice often becomes entangled with free will. When the world of limitations slaps them in the face, they often become despondent and see free will as a nice way to say “Do you want French fries or onion rings?” While this might be true in many ways, free will ultimately decides choices of morality. As a result, the only real free choice is whether to do good or evil. 

Desteni maintains that a thoughtful and emotional humanity is forced to commit acts of evil through a preprogrammed system. A child rapist has no choice in the matter concerning whether or not to rape a child. A greedy corporate executive has no choice but to continue exploiting people for the sake of profit. Villains basically have no choice but to continue being villains. But does a child rapist start off having no problem raping a child? Did the thought and then the lust merely spring into his mind and off he went raping away? Or did it start off gradually with a conscience screaming in his head not to hurt the child? I would argue that no matter the cultural or economic background, the child rapist understood what he was about to do the first time and made the choice to sin anyway. After raping several more children, the child rapist has mostly destroyed his conscience. He becomes addicted and acclimated to indulging in his lust. He thinks that nothing, even God, will ever forgive him. And thus he continues his downward spiral into damnation. This doesn't mean that the person can't turn away from such evil. But the longer it is done, the harder it is to get away from.

In order to stop this abusive and destructive behavior, Desteni asserts that only removing the thoughts at the source may one free themselves from such depravity. However, I would argue that a follower of Desteni would be doing more harm to his or herself in the end. What would one be without their thoughts or their feelings? Desteni doesn’t answer this question. It only states that a person will be free from emotions and morality while being only in the moment. While Desteni seems to make a big deal about people today acting like robots, I would say that end goal of Desteni where there is no emotion, no morality, and only experiences stimuli in the moment is a more or less an accurate description of a robot. Therefore, while Desteni perceives the problem, its prescription is no better or even worse than the disease.

Brother Sun, Sister Moon song
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I watched Brother Sun, Sister Moon recently. I've always been intrigued by the life of St. Francis of Assisi. Anyway, there was a song in it I really liked. I don't know what the proper name of it is. But, I thought it was missing something. So I added in a few verses (my additions are in bold).

If you want your dream to be
Build it slow and surely.
Small beginnings, greater ends
Heartfelt work grows purely.

If you want to live life free
Take your time go slowly.
Do few things but do them well
Simple joys are holy.

Day by day,
Stone by stone,
Build your secret slowly.
Day by day,
You'll grow too,
You'll know heaven's glory.

If you want your dream to be
Build it slow and surely.
Small beginnings, greater ends,
Heartfelt work grows purely.

If you want to live life free
walk with Christ in Charity
Do for others as you do for yourself
Pray the Holy Spirit to guide thee 

Step by step,
Hour by hour,
Carry your cross humbly.
Step by step,
Faith grows too,
God’s love will hold thee.

Desteni Productions: Scrutiny of the Portal
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Scrutiny of the Interdimensional Portal

Many have stated that the girl named Sunette was not a portal as the Desteni People claim. While watching many of the videos, one can see that Sunette shifts her eyes to the left on many occasions. To many, she seems to be reading from queue cards or some other such prompter. However, Desteni tried to refute this by having one or two videos where the entity spoke with her eyes shut. But, this proves very little since people have been known to memorize speeches. And having only a few videos where the speech is done with eyes shut begs any reasonable person to conclude that Desteni was only trying to cover it tracks. Another observation is that many of the deceased people she ports have none of the mannerism or characteristics of their former selves. For example, the entity known as Mikey (Adolf Hitler) acts nothing like Hitler. Also, while watching the entities interact with the world through the portal, I noticed how many of these beings do things unconsciously like scratching the nose and head. The most notable example I found was where Sunette was portaling this reptile god named Enki. Enki was giving a lecture on polarity. In the video, the shoulder of Sunette’s blouse fell exposing the bra strap. And without thinking, Enki just covered it back up just like any girl would. Therefore, if polarity is such as deception, then why does Enki care about modesty? Desteni indicates that portals existed in the past. However, I could find no literature or any records where people have claimed to be portals rather than channelers before 2007. It seems like Desteni just made up the term to add weight to their message. 

From the Desteni Website, Bernard Poolman gives his Common Sense evaluation of the Portal in order to validate the messages that have been given to Desteni. I’ll post his evaluation along with my own. Original here: desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php

1. For any being at the age of 22 to produce the volume of work in interviews and writing on website and 2 forums--is in itself a practical challenge--so--consider if you are able to do this practically yourself before jumping in an expecting what you are unable to produce.

KWP: I have another common sense explanation. The material was primarily prewritten by Bernard Poolman and given to Sunette to recite in front of a camera. Hence the reason for the abundance of leftward eye movements which denote use of queue cards or a prompter.

2. The education level of the portal is High School

KWP: This is irrelevant if my first point is true. Also, I’ve seen better actresses in high school drama clubs.

3. The practical work experience of the portal is Waitressing at a coffee shop, and admin work in capturing data.

KWP: Once again, irrelevant if my first point is true.

4. The portal grew up in a Christian home and left home at 18 years of age to work for an income.

KWP: Again, irrelevant. Furthermore, without any external evidence, we have no way to know who she is or where she came from.

5. The portal have read no mainstream books in any area of philosophy whatsoever.

KWP: Maybe she didn’t, but you certainly did Bernard since there are indications of your involvement with the occult preceding Desteni. Also, the historical material is unoriginal and based upon falsified or exaggerated evidence. (see Sitchin is Wrong: www.sitchiniswrong.com/)

6. The ability to leave the body was instant--in one breath.

KWP: Oh really? So you say.

7. The reason why other languages are not pursued is practicality--to practically in this world produced typed and video info requires time and will flood the sites --thus other languages are for each that find within themselves the resolve to stand up as life for all equal and one.

KWP: What has this got to do with validating the Portal?

8. The portal thus investigates things that people belief or assume and report on that--there is no agenda or preference but equality and oneness for all life--thus the end of enslavement of life to systems in this world and here after. 

KWP: Even if one assumes that actual spirits were communicating through the portal, there is no way to know for sure that these things were telling the truth.

9. All material should be measured from the starting point of common sense as life where all life is equal and one--any system of belief should be specifically investigated to search out separation or grandeur of greatness and specialness or exclusivity of belief or whether what is proposed is practical for all life in all ways.

KWP: However, in this case, common sense doesn’t include skepticism. If a tree falls over in the woods, should we believe that a spirit did it or Bernard Poolman and an 18 year old girl did it?

10. Due to the nature of access of the portal to ALL existence ALL the time -- it influence even in the smallest thought--thus the portal are tested daily for stability as life as all as equal.

KWP: The Portal are tested daily? How in the heck is this done? And who does the testing? Where is the objectivity? This doesn’t lend credibility, but only piles on more suspicion. 

11. Man should first see the message in the context of equality and oneness and realize that no interest exist to form any group or religion--but to support those that so wish with practical skills to live IN THIS WORLD as equal and one.

KWP: On the contrary, I think it is obvious that you are trying to form your own religion. As to who or what is actually behind this new religion is open for debate.

12. Understand that language are taught to a child from birth by the parents--it is thus programmed into the physical reality of the being--when the being dies--language dies and the being that steps across the divide is in a sound form no talking anymore--talking happens through a physical body through voice physical structures in the throat--thus some common sense please --the voice and tonality of the portal is according to the physical formation of the portal--look at the information on equality and oneness and do not let the eyes and ears deceive as one hears and sees only according to beliefs and not according to practical common sense. Thus, it is not about the voice/tonality - but the very words as the being - hear the words spoken /expressed as the being with common sense.

KWP: That is some convenient common sense. I’m glad everyone already knew this. Also, I’m wondering if the Portal knew how to speak Afrikaans as well. If she does, then Hitler would have reflexively chosen that language instead.

13. Although the portal access all beings everywhere--only some interviews will be done--in accordance to show what is equal and one as life and what is not--it is for each individual to make up their own way --because each will face their truth equal and one to what they allow themselves to be--and in this remember--you do die and will face yourself here or here after--we suggest here as here after is the truth of you anyway.

KWP: Then the Desteni Process is irrelevant since everyone can just do it after death. And again this has nothing to do with validating the Portal.

14. Due to the extensive contamination of the vocabulary and words - humans use with diverse meanings where not even two humans can agree on the meaning of the word love or the word god - Desteni have common sensically introduced specific new words and word formations to transfer the understanding of the Desteni message without contamination of the accepted disastrous world view. Thus, it may take the common sense reader a moment to get used to the way we place words. But once one do stand in self honest observation of the world, you will realize with common sense the necessity of such an approach to be able to stand with a clear message that is equal and one for all as all.

KWP: Well, I’m sure you’ll add them to your Newspeak, or rather Destenispeak, Dictionary when it finally comes out. Again, this has nothing to do with validating the Portal.

Desteni Productions made its debut on youtube in July of 2007. Besides Poolman's involvement in the occult, there was also High Priestess Andrea. Her association with Desteni begins at an early date since her interviews are dated around October of 2007. In several of the Desteni videos, Andrea admits her involvement in Wicca and using Ouija to contact spirits or demons since her days in high school. She includes details about coming from an abusive home, hating Christianity, having sex with spirits or demons, and allowing her body to be possessed by them. She relates how several demons decided to help prepare her for something very important in life. Andrea also goes into details about depression, antisocial behavior, and suicidal thoughts. Psychologically, she fits the bill of someone with schizophrenia. She continues with her strange tale about her relationship with spirit named Jack. On several occasions this being lies to her before eventually revealing himself to her as both a demon and her guide. After many years of having this relationship, she encounters two people named Winged and Eagle (who I’m guessing is Mr. Poolman and Sunette). And thus Andrea’s involvement in Desteni began.

For anyone to accept Andrea’s testimony, he or she would have to discount three other possibilities. The first possibility is that she is completely schizophrenic, the second is that she is complete liar, and the third is that she is telling the truth but her guide isn’t. By Andrea’s own admission, Jack demonstrated that he was a liar. However, Desteni would have us believe that Jack can’t lie when he speaking through the Portal because they are in a state of equality and oneness. This belief is utterly absurd and defies both logic and common sense. Even if I accept that Jack and other demons speak through the Portal, it is quite evident that the demons are prone to lying, anger, and driving people toward suicide. Furthermore, from watching the interview, I have concluded that Andrea suffers from a delusion of grandeur while simultaneously keeping her mind locked in a fantasy world where she doesn’t have to get a job or worry about stress. Whenever she is presented with obstacles, it appears that she invents excuses to stay in her fantasy world. It is a world filled with demons, self enlightenment, and a destiny to spread her new religion.

To see Andrea's Interview (episode 1) go here: www.youtube.com/watch

Lastly, if the Portal really was valid, why didn't Team Desteni take her to portal in entities while amongst objective observers. I mean would it have been such a big deal to bring about 20 or so eyewitnesses to the farm? I mean even Our Lady of Fatima had the Miracle of the Sun. But, alas, followers of Desteni just give a pie in the sky answer and tell people to concentrate on the message rather than the messenger. I've seen on several message boards where people bring up these problems but Team Desteni just sweeps them under the rug. Sorry guys, my common sense tells me that if there something wrong with the messenger then there is probably something wrong with the message.


Desteni Productions: The Desteni Process
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The Desteni Process Commentary

Any who talks with the Desteni People have undoubtedly run into their jargon. At first it seems somewhat incomprehensible as the followers love to throw these terms around without properly explaining what they are talking about. However, after doing some reading off of the Desteni website, it seems that what the Disciples of Desteni are talking about is the internal monologue all people have. For example, a person might compare themselves to another person and find him or herself lacking in some area and thereby beat themselves up over it. Another person might be trying to seek attention through self pity, and thereby instill frustration or anger in someone who would extend pity. Another person who feels bad about a situation or an event might seek sympathy or support from others. Many of these things are done unconsciously without introspection by many. While most everyone to one degree or another suffers from such anxieties, The Desteni message seems directed more towards those who suffer from greater levels of internal distress such as social anxiety disorder or even clinical depression. Therefore, someone who is prone to having mood swings might find the Desteni message to be profound. Also, this explains why the message seems to be popular with young adults since that age group seems to have the hardest time coping with stress.

The Desteni Program asserts that it allows individuals to recognize such internal monologue and remove it at the source after a process of Self Forgiveness, Self Honesty, and Self Responsibility. While Desteni apparently lacks any ability at giving precise meaning towards terminology, it is my view that they are mostly referring to thoughts which lead to negative emotions (such as fear, anger, sadness, etc.). However, I could be wrong and it may mean all thoughts and all emotions. If this is the case, I can only assume that Desteni means that when all thoughts and emotions have been banished, a being will simply become an unemotional non-thinking reflexive machine. And when I say “reflexive,” I mean being in the moment and responding to only sensory stimulus. Thoughts concerning past, future, good, bad, love, and hate would vanish. I suppose happiness and joy would only occur in the same sense as when a baby giggles at something or when a dog salivates before being fed.

While this might seem fine to some, Desteni takes having negative emotions to another level. One of the Desteni articles (Munchin – Thoughts: The unkown secret of creation) relates how thoughts can lead to fears which in turn affects others as we are all connected in the consciousness system. In this way, if one has a thought or fear about stealing, the thought or fear may cause the event to happen through another person. In another example, a young woman could have a fear of being raped while walking down a dark alley. Since her fears can be sent through the consciousness system, the fear might become manifest somewhere else where a man sees another woman. Therefore, in Desteni, thoughts can become crimes or Thoughtcrimes (to borrow the term from Orwell’s 1984). Also, this belief pads their idea that there is no free will. While fear in many cases might be unhealthy, it is not a completely useless emotion. Fear tells us when a certain situation might be dangerous and allows us to be more alert. Fear for certain animals instills in us a healthy respect for those animals. The fight or flight response which is induced by fear allows people to become more prepared such as through the release of adrenaline.

desteni.co.za/a/munchin-thoughts-the-unknown-secret-of-creation

The problem with this process is that the Desteni Program is articulated within the framework of a world rejecting new religious movement. As those within Desteni feel empowered through Corrected Action (behavior modification), they seem to see themselves as more aware and liberated than the rest of humanity. In this way, the Desteni Program allows its members to develop an illusion of superiority over the rest of the world. While this process supposedly applies to judgments upon others, the rhetoric from followers has demonstrated otherwise. As a result, this could further lead to another process known as doublethink whereby a Desteni follower externally espouses Equality and Oneness while holding a superior enlightened self image. 

As these terms are loaded (meaning more than one meaning or a slippery slope of meanings), the Desteni Process could lead into areas which have nothing to do with an internal monologue. Desteni members seem to apply Forgiveness to information or knowledge that is perceived as deception or delusion imposed from the outside. For example, members of Desteni seem to think that getting physically sick is a deception or trick of the mind. While there might be some truth to mind over matter, this is a dangerous precedent. Also, Forgiveness can be applied to ideas. For example, one should forgive oneself of having never challenged all that was trusted. While in many cases this would be healthy, Desteni seems to demonstrate that one should challenge and question all except Desteni. Thus, more doublethink ensues. It also occurs to me that the Desteni Process could be used to curtail or eradicate a person’s conscience. For instance, if a Desteni follower came across someone who was hurt and lying on side of the road, Self Forgiveness could be applied for having thoughts of guilt for not wanting to help. Self Responibility could then be applied to cease any feelings of sympathy for the suffering subject. A Desteni follower might still help the subject, but it would be done out of a mere whim rather than any other reason.

desteni.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php
 

The area of gravest concern to me concerning the Desteni Process is how it articulates with people who are not going through the Process. In one example, I read how a person got angry and punched his sister’s son in the stomach. He Self Forgave (i.e. excused) the guilt he was feeling for the action. Then he decided to leave his sister without telling her. After which, he did Self Forgiveness for feeling guilty for not telling her in advance. Later, he performed Self Forgiveness for having the desire to react violently in the first place. My concern is about the sister and her child. Do they understand that he forgave himself for hitting the child? What will the affect on them be? Under normal circumstances, one would come to feel guilt and realize their mistake. A guilty person would be sorry and try to make amends. However, under the Desteni Process, an initiate would express no regret as feeling guilt or remorse would be a deception. The very act of saying “I’m sorry” to the child would be a lie. Also, it seems that being Desteni Responsible excuses the need to be actually responsible.

desteni-dairy-joe.blogspot.com/2010/02/bullies.html
 

Lastly, while watching videos of people associated with the Desteni Movement, I have noticed some behaviors which I initially discounted as possible drug use. Some of the speakers talk in a broken languid or listless fashion as if having trouble expressing the correct words. I now think that this behavior is due to the Desteni Process as the speaker is challenging every thought which may arise at the moment of talking. Since I’m no psychologist, I have no idea what the prolonged effects of the Desteni Process maybe. I wonder if some form of mental illness could develop under the course of the Process. I don't believe much good or anything of worth could come out of undergoing the Desteni Process. Instead of resolving issues of anxiety, Desteni promotes withdrawal and destruction of emotional turmoil, rather than offering a way to find balance between reason and emotion. In some cases, the approach might be helpful. However, in the end, I think Desteni will only leave someone unhappy, isolated, and possibly paranoid. Since love is a lie, the experience of Equality and Oneness can only really be shared with others of Desteni zeal. But what feelings can be shared amongst the damned of Desteni who deny feeling? In other words, if the only love that can be experienced is through Equality and Oneness, and the only real, and known, feeling of love is just an illusion, what is left but lip-servicing love while feeling nothing? What will happiness be like? What would be the face of contentment for Desteni? I would argue that it is like mirage. Desteni is an illusion in and of itself. The end goal is more empty than the dark spaces between stars.

For any who are actually and seriously thinking about undergoing the Desteni Process or even any who are currently undergoing it, I would suggest to you to reconsider or at least carefully think about what the Process might be doing to you. If it is giving peace and contentment then so be it. However, I would also ask that you suspend any preconceptions that you currently have about Christianity. Thus far, Desteni Productions views Christianity with little or no worth. It also uses overly negative monolithic depictions of Christianity which only show the bad side. If Desteni really knows that Polarity is a deception, then why the one-sidedness? Maybe you haven’t actually given Christianity a chance? I was brought up in a Christian home. When I was young I felt like my parents shoved it down my throat. I didn’t like going to church because I thought the people were only there to gossip or give lip service. But the thing is, I never actually truly tried to apply Christ’s teachings in my life. I got lost in the forest of new ageism and the occult. I read loads of books on theosophy and performed rituals. I believed that I was my own God and that I was awakening to a higher level. I thought that if I meditated long enough that I would find my inner self. But, in the end, none of it brought me solace. When I came back to God and Christ and really tried it without my old judgments from childhood, it filled me with such joy and inner peace. The love of God brought me to tears and I felt so ashamed of the creature that I was. But, God is merciful and full of so much love and forgiveness. And when you truly break yourself down and humble yourself before God, God will fill you with his love and the Holy Spirit. You will know because you feel it in your heart and it will spread through you like a fire. And once you truly strive to be a Christian, God will ease your burdens. The stress you feel will become light because you will know that you are saved. Christ said, “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whosoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” Therefore, I implore you before you get lost any further while searching for shadows within yourself to come to God through Christ his son. And at the very least, I suggest you think and search your soul about it. I would also encourage you to watch the following video:



Desteni Productions: Or We are the Desteni, Resistance is Futile
paladins_pub



A little while ago I bumped into Desteni Productions on youtube while looking into the Venus Project (see Zeitgeist Addendum). I watched one of their videos which was more annoying than not. However, I decided to look at a few more and boy was I in for a surprise. Desteni Productions is a youtube channel with over 1200 uploads and growing. The vids mainly revolve around a young woman named Desteni or Sunette who gives spiritual lessons from other dimensions. Many sites on the internet consider the group at best a joke or at worst a dangerous fledgling cult. Those who take the Desteni message seriously and who probably suffer from some form of anxiety issues might very well become a fanatical Desteni Disciple. After chatting with several members of Desteni on some of the youtube comments page, I was banned. I was really curious as to why they seriously held so many strange beliefs to be true. Also, I didn’t completely understand what in the heck they were talking about. So, I did as one of their members suggested and started going through their website. Needless to say, the Desteni forum is not well organized. The members seem to want you to read through all the material and watch all the mind numbing videos just to get a rudimentary understanding of their teachings. What I’m presenting here is an overview of the Desteni New Religious Movement for those who wish to find out more about them without becoming terribly confused. I will begin with their belief system. It should be noted that members of Desteni maintain that they have no beliefs. They will even go to the point of calling someone else’s beliefs “beLIEfs” as to them all beliefs except their own are in fact lies. 

Their Belief System (or Common Sense System)

1) Demons are actually ghosts who died from traumatic deaths

High Priest Darryl Thomas states the following:

Demons have been greatly misunderstood in human history, and many beliefs about them have made erroneously attached to them. Demons in every case turned out to be human beings who died in extremely traumatic conditions, and were trapped within the emotional energetics symbolized by their deaths. A great number of these demons were children. And all demons were trapped on what was called 'the demon dimension' which was superimposed on earth. It was later discovered Heaven's attitude towards these trapped humans was singular: a total and complete disregard to those beings. Since no one on Earth had ever witnessed the goings-on regarding Heaven, nobody had any idea what the true nature of demons were. It was only within the process of assisting demons was this discovered.

forum.rickross.com/read.php 

2) God and his angels are evil (The Annunaki)

To Desteni, God is known as Anu who belongs to an ancient race of beings known as the Annunaki. Anu and his ilk crafted and created most of the misery now present in the world. Even though, Desteni claims not to blame the creator, it still pictures God as the architect of suffering. God denied humanity freedom through installing preprogrammed behaviors which create and perpetuate suffering. Many of the ideas concerning these beings come from hack scholars such Zachariah Sitchen and Amitakh Stanford. The Desteni cosmology is more detailed and vast than this, but a more detailed description will not be given here. Regardless, in this context, the passive acceptance of such a cosmology defies reason.

Another idea of God which Desteni states along with other new age groups is that God is one and one with the universe. Therefore, everything within the universe is God. As far as Desteni is concerned, once humanity as a whole reaches a certain level of awareness, all as one will transcend and realize our place as equal to God. However, Desteni does not account for how the universe came into existence and rejects any idea of an external God. In some ways this mirrors Sethian Gnosticism where the Logos (Universe) is either good or disinterested. And Ialdabaoth or Demiurge (Anu) made humanity. Desteni also mirrors Gnosticism in that earth is hell.

3) The girl named Sunette is or was an Interdimensional Portal through which spirits may communicate

The girl who appears on most of the videos was at one time a portal through which demons could take control of the girl’s body in order to relay information about cosmology, history, and the true state of the world. Others have used the word channeling, while followers of Desteni claim that a portal is where the entity has total control whereas in channeling the channeler maintains control. Spirits who communicated through the portal include Jesus, Hitler, some guy named Jack, Aliens, a turkey, and a vibrator (apparently inanimate objects have spirits too). Soon after manifesting or acquiring this ability, Sunette conveniently ceased being able to use or manifest this power on Sept. 1st 2008. Then, in December of the same year, the portal reopened for some strange reason. But whatever, portal interviews trickled out less and less after that.

4) The Present Condition of the World is Abusive

The Followers of Desteni state that the current state of the world where war, rape, poverty, etc. is caused through programmed human behavior. To Desteni, this current state is unacceptable. Desteni states that all the old systems (religion, governments, etc.) have failed. If humanity as a whole applied the Desteni Program true freedom could be attained and the abusive conditions would supposedly cease. 

5) The Desteni Process: Self Forgiveness, Self Honesty, and Self Responsibility

This is where I think many who encounter Desteni members have trouble understanding what exactly they are saying. The Desteni Process is where one, over at least seven years, releases the chains of thought and emotion. The program has some similarities with the Auditing process in Scientology. However, the Desteni Process more closely resembles Zen Buddhism’s state of mindfulness. It is where one pays close attention to the endless ramblings of the mind and ceases the mind’s wanting to insert judgments or preconceptions onto things or actions. 

Desteni Self Forgiveness: The process whereby an initiate acknowledges unwanted thoughts or thoughts which lead to emotions.

Desteni Self Honesty: The process whereby an initiate unlearns or disbelieves all previous held conceptions and world beliefs. It is tied closely with the idea of Polarity and Common Sense.

Desteni Self Responsibility: The process whereby an initiate ceases or interrupts thoughts and emotions as they begin. Sometimes, followers of Desteni write the term as “Self Response-ability” as it denotes an ability to respond to or cancel thoughts upon their inception. 

6) Humans are Programmed from Birth

According to Desteni, human behavior is predetermined from birth. A new born baby is downloaded with consciousness software which will dictate how the person feels and thinks for the entirety of life. The modern conception of free will is an illusion. Therefore, when Desteni says that a man who raped a child has no free will, his preprogrammed thoughts and feelings drove him to commit the act. The only salvation from thought slavery is through the Desteni Program.

7) Equality and Oneness for All

Desteni states that beneath all the illusions and feelings of separation, all of humanity and everything in the universe is in fact one and equal. By one, I think they mean one like God as God is one with the universe and everything in it. By equal, I think they mean that we really have no differences. The differences which we appear to have are based upon the illusions which the world has pulled over our eyes. In this way, someone who is a great basketball player is only great because we have deceived ourselves into thinking we could never be as great. Desteni seems to reject the idea that some people have more talents or abilities than others. Also, I don’t think that they mean equality in the metaphysical sense of the word. When Desteni members say that “We stand up within ourselves as One and Equal,” they mean that all of humanity is the same underneath all the beliefs, thoughts, and emotions. Therefore, if two or more people strip away their preconceptions, they would realize that they are not separate beings but one and equal.

8) The Current Money System and Social Constructs are Harmful

According to Desteni, the world’s current monetary system causes or adds to suffering through poverty. A harmful money system in this context would mean any money system which allows one person to make or receive more money than another. Therefore, everyone on the planet should receive the same wage no matter what. If a doctor is making x amount of money for his or her services, then a janitor should make x amount as well. Additionally, laws and customs are seen as harmful since they add to the deceit or illusion of separation and polarity. A law or custom is an external construct that imposes or reinforces programmed behavior. If all would see themselves as Equal and One, then the need for laws and customs would disappear. 

9) The Veneration of Life

Followers of Desteni will claim that they worship nothing but life. In fact, to Desteni, life is religion. The veneration of life takes place when one realizes that everything has awareness. Everything is sacred because everything is one and equal. One might notice that Desteni seems to make a lot of noise concerning social injustices in the world such as poverty, cruelty, and war. On the other hand, one might notice that they don’t seem to be too concerned about raising donations or helping charities for such social injustices. It seems that those who follow Desteni believe that under going the Desteni Process by itself will end such injustices. Therefore, if everyone converted to Desteni and undertook the Process, all would realize or see the illusion of separation for what it is and naturally cease creating suffering. 

The Modus Operandi

Desteni exists, for the time being, as a small new religious movement based in South Africa (near Durban) from the Desteni Farm. Its driving goal seems to be conversion of as many as possible to its indoctrination and belief system via the internet. The target age group is mainly young adults (around the age of 20). Those who become followers of Desteni may go to the farm to receive education and mind control exercises. After this education period, these individuals may return to their homes. From there, these individuals will try to spread the message to others through relationships or the internet. Unlike some new religious movements, Desteni seems more organic in that it doesn’t require isolation of its members from outsiders. In fact each follower of Desteni seems to become their own living system of isolation. While Desteni has gained some following since its inception in around 2008, it seems to have slowed down. The most likely reason for this is due to the lack of an inspiring and believable charismatic leader. While the girl known as Sunette acts in this respect, she seems to presently lack the dominating presence or inspiration of a charismatic leader. However, this does not mean that the movement will cease to grow. In my view, Desteni has several things going for it. Firstly, it is non-exclusive which means that it easily accessible to the common folk regardless of wealth or status. Its organic nature allows it to flourish outside of Desteni controlled zones. It appears liberating in that it shows a way for people to release themselves from anxiety and other social issues. Lastly, Desteni gives purpose and solidarity through its goals to dismantle the current state of the world and set up its own system in its place. 

A few more things: Polarity and Common Sense

Desteni Polarity: In Desteni, polarity is anything which has an opposite: good/evil, happy/sad, love/hate. It is pretty much anything which makes an individual think of the world in good and bad terms. Sometimes the word duality will be used. Desteni considers polarity to be another deception. While things may not be good or bad in and of themselves, Desteni's use of the term is an oversimplification.

Desteni Common Sense: This seems to mean thinking or accepting things without judgments, interpretations, beliefs, or definitions. For example, if one sees a swastika, one will not automatically think evil. In some ways it seemingly seeks to reduce humans to the mental level of children or perhaps even animals. Regardless, the followers of Desteni seem to apply their common sense to everything except Desteni beliefs. Or rather, Desteni beliefs are Common Sense. 

From this point I plan on giving some further commentary on Desteni Productions. I plan to address the Desteni Money System and the Desteni Process among other things. Finally, if you wish to visit the Desteni website and possibly turn your brains to tapioca, go here: desteni.co.za/ 

Until next time

God Bless


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